Olga Alexandrovna Sedakova - "An amazing poet and a wonderful man." Dedicated to Francois Fedie. Than expensive fear

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Olga Sedakova

Born in Moscow in 1949. It began to write poetry very early, but in this hobby was not understood. When it was time to go to school, Olga's family was in Beijing, where his father worked as a military engineer. The year in Beijing forced the sedakov to feel China his homeland. In 1967, she entered the philological faculty of Moscow State University. It happened to her meetings with teachers - N. Tolstim, Y. Lotman, S. Averintsev and others. Gradually there was an unofficial circle of academic philologists who retained a humanistic look at the culture. The first poetic collection of Sedakova was released only in 1990. Then she first left abroad. Excellent knowledge of languages \u200b\u200ballowed her and in Europe to find friends and readers among people Kul-tours. Now 27 books of poems and prose Sedakova have already been published. She is a laureate of 14 Russian and international awards, Dr. Theology of the Honoris Causa, an officer of the Order of the Arts and the Literature of the French Republic.

Olga Sedakova - a strange poet. This oddity is in the constancy of the refusal of everything that is usually subject to fate. Her biography is devoid of noisy events. She always avoided them herself. "In Soviet aesthetics, she once said," there was a kind of cult of life experience. Artists often hope to find in "experience" what they do not find inside, and purposely adjust their special experience: interesting, dark, terrible. But the fact that in such an experience is not at all wisdom. I really won't want to have some of my experiences. "

Specialization Sedakova - Slavic antiquities. This means that the subject of her scientific interest was always a creative man - culture, life, himself. Formally, it is just a modest candidate of science. And the doctor of theology and poet. After the death of Averintsev, Likhachev, Lotman Olga Sedakova remained in Russia one of the few experts on eternal human values.

In her small apartment on the northern outskirts of Moscow is dark and quiet. Olga recently transferred inflammation of the lungs and is still very weak. The voice of her quiet, a light smile slides along the face, the words run away from the finality, from the last sentence. Its way to speak does not require an effort from a listener to no smaller than something that has to make it. She suggests listening to the flowing meanings of words. We will have time to sentence. Do you have time to listen? ..

A table lamp burns, in dim light the roots of books, photo frames flicker. The square of the room, outlined around the perimeter with bookcases, is ascenetically empty. There is no our century in this apartment, nor the country. There is nothing but books. So, there is the whole world.

- There is such a concept in Europe - "Intellectual". In Italy - Umberto Eco, in Germany - Gunter Grass. Are they the blood brothers of our intellectuals?

"This is a very long story - the origin of the European intellectual," Sedakova starts quietly. - He occurred from Humanist, and he in turn from the church scientist, cleric. This is some free "mental" part of society, which has always left the right to look at him by several from the part. But there is another concept - moral authority. The present intellectual is not at all moral authority. The era of such authorities, I'm afraid in Europe ended. For many of my friends, European culture people, nor Eco, nor Grass are moral authorities. I do not know for whom they are. Moral authority is a completely different figure. I happened to be in Germany, when the violinist Yehudi Menukhin died there during the tour. So he possessed this unconditional trust. To him was, as a worldly priest, for some mental support. Modern Western intellectuals are not like that.

- What is the difference?

- The most influential of them, as a rule, in their own way party, left, and in the philosophical sense of skeptics. That kindness, heat, nobility, which were in Albert Swiss or in Yehoudi, they simply do not have, this is another human warehouse. They also think themselves not just experts. And your own business is considered to fight injustice. But such a person, as a Swissser, is unlikely to call you now in Europe.

- So there are kindness more important than analytical abilities?

- Need some kind of depth, - the eyes of Sedakov takes. - Moral authorities - they are not necessarily believers. I did not hear Menukhin spoke about his religiosity. But, let's say, his gesture, when he, a Jew, immediately after the war came to play Berlin, as if showing - that's how we will do ... This is generosity generosity. And all that he did was satisfied with this spirit ... Yes, you yourself know who was the last one moral authority. This, of course, John Paul II. It was surrounded by the very attitude of the so-sharing, some kind of joy. Because it is.

On the closet behind the back of Olga, there is a photo in the frame - John Paul II, smiling, bowing his head, near the girl's embarrassed Sedakov. In 1998, in Rome, he handed her the literary prize of Vladimir Solovyov "Christian European roots".

"We saw it for the first time three years before that," Sedakov recalls. - Then they invited to Rome a whole delegation of Russian cultural figures. We were offered to give my writings to dad. I just got the first book big, and I brought it. I naturally thought it was a formal business - he would not read my poems. He still looked and says: "I'm afraid it will be difficult for me." And then it turned out that he was read, he read everything and ... in general, loved.

The last time Olga saw John Paul II in the year of Millennium, when the Vatican accompanied the outgoing millennium and prepared for a new one.

- That year every Sunday was devoted to something. I found Sunday all the believers of the police and all the cripples. They were celebrated on the square in front of the Cathedral of St. Peter, and I came to listen to Dad says. He was then heavily destroyed by man, almost did not own his hands. The cripples were the last. They were convened from all over the world. And Dad then said that humanity itself enters into a new millennium as a disabled, mutilated from all sides. So he completed the preparation for the new epoch. And after these unfortunate passed by Pope, they all became different, a transformation happened in their eyes. Metropolitan Anthony Surozhsky said that if you in the eyes of another you do not see the kingdom of heaven, you will never see him. This is only people open each other.

Understanding what kind of culture, Sedakova has always been distinguished from the generally accepted. Never proving anything to anyone, she took over the guardian mission. In one of the interviews, she noticed: "Culture does not coincide with the book erudition, as it turned out to be understood from all the differences. Culture I would call the development of direct sensory perception: vision, hearing. What antiquity saw the vocation of the poet. The work of the Orpheus is "softening the lava." Signs of "softened in the wrong", for example, in the fact that a person does not repeat once a selected error. "

- Yes of course. But both in Europe moral authority is not always an intellectual, and they also do not directly associate with the intelligentsia. About the intelligentsia should be told a whole story, she has a slightly different origin than Western intellectuals.

- Tell me. With definitions are now difficult.

- Yes, yes, it is very difficult. During the years of relative freedom, we have formed a type of people who prefer to call intellectuals, not intellectuals. These are educated people of traditional left orientation. With a characteristic ironic warehouse, rather decline, "deconstructing" than pathetic. They themselves feel their difference from the old intellectuals, which we almost did not catch. Intelligent pre-revolutionary is a free person. When they say that Likhachev is a sample of a real intellectual, you need to make reservations. He was not free, he had to go on many compromises. Idealize pre-revolutionary intelligentsia is also not worth it. But the fact that they were independent of official politics are for sure.

- Intelligence is non-commissioning?

- Yes, there is a common between intellectual and intellectual, but with the difference that our intelligentsia originated mainly from Popovichi - there is other genealogy. Inside it was a very militant part, from which poprain was formed. These popovits spent a sharp anti-religious consciousness and even as if a new religion - the religion of the people, which the best of Nekrasov expressed. This is such a sacrificial attitude to the ministry of the people. Much more than the ministry of culture. That is what the difference. Intellectuals as a goal of ministry choose culture. And our intellectuals are people.

During the start of mass performances in Moscow, Olga was in Italy. He says that the faces of people in her swamp struck her. Just be in such a company is a miracle, and here the whole area!

- At all, not at all! And very long time he does not hear what I want to hear. The fact is that moral authority is an absolutely informal figure. This is a recognition that comes from people of ordinary feelings. Recognition of folk, spontaneous. In addition, that, for example, an outstanding musician or a philosopher, he is respected for some impeccable life. That is our problem. Whoever began to speak in the squares, we feel that there is no, it is not that. They can speak well, but not believe.

- What and who would you believe?

- A decent, enlightened person who does not need personal power. A very important topic appears - dignity. This is no longer just games and politics. This is generally a very weak point of a person who lived in Russia last decades. At first he was humiliated with the system, then the liberation took place in very ugly and humiliating forms. It is difficult to find not very young people who would preserve dignity. It seemed that it was not necessary for anyone. And suddenly, look, people come out and the first thing they say: we want us to be respected. Their request is not power, not money, but respect for man. It is just a new generation, it does not tolerate anymore so that it humiliated as previous generations suffered. Interestingly, their opponents cannot consider this message. It is said that these are the full citizens or Westerners. BUT simple wordsthat do not need to decipher, they do not believe. You know, more than a protest movement, another amateur attracted me. For example, how they themselves began to stew fires, help sick children, which our society has never done. People can love each other when they make something good together - do not require top, and themselves. It is wonderful. A society is born, with which it is impossible to seek ugly.

- Where did it come from if the elders have not taught?

- Opened "Iron Curtain". People saw a society created on the humanistic base, where a person cannot insult with anyone and he himself is not aggressive. And of course, care of fears. Young people live broader opportunities in the world. Where did the Soviet man lose dignity? He understood that if he did not do this, he would not publish a book. Now they know: well, good, do not print - there is an Internet. Do not put a grid - they will release a book without a griff. There is no this fatality that otherwise nothing can be done - only gives out conditions given on top.

- So society changes?

- Of course, it became much more developed than those who rule them. It has long been clear that someday it will be suitable for an open conflict. The authority does not reach the influence of what people live in Russia now. Maybe it is still a smaller part of the population associated with the capitals, cities, but this is its historical part. Never the whole people makes history. Our state is now alienated from the population. Between them impenetrable wall. Even in tsarist Russia So it was not that everything was solved for everyone: what the scientists should write, how to teach the teacher. This is a heritage of totalitarianism. In the state device, this is not overcome well, it just became softer.

- Karl Jaspers at the end of the 40s offered to raise Germany through the approval of the moral vertical, he also talked about dignity ...

- Not only Jaspers. I had to write, for example, about Dietrich Bonheffeff - German Pastor, who participated in the antihytler movement and died. He wrote a thing - she is called "ten years old," which, it seemed to me, here everyone would have to read. He describes in German experience what happened to man for ten years of totalitarianism. Realize what we had with a person - this is the first task.

- Do you mean the Soviet period?

- For me, there are no boundaries here. The post-Soviet time is the continuation of what was sown. We have a catastrophe. Soviet SIS-topic was a huge educational camp. They wanted to create a new person. And at school and in children's garden A man was preached by an indostitrinal, who is completely taken away with a free will, which was called conscious, only if he is ready to perform everything he says. But such a person is deprived of the opportunity to think about something complex and deep. One of the most terrible will take this person - distrust. Here the contrast is huge between what we see in Europe, and what here. We always seek some hidden motives, do not listen straight words, all the time is suspected. And the gulling person who accepts what he is told for his pure coin, - he would be a fool. And post-hundred years, perhaps, even strengthened this element of ridicule, distrust to each other and in general. What authorities can you say when everything is suspicious? A person was not trusted for too long, this is not going out for nothing. With such a distrust, society cannot arise. Because society is the interaction of people who trust each other. And now we see that the government continues to play the old game, and this is no longer needed by the new generation. They do not want to be dark with them, and they themselves do not want to be treated.

- But why is there no answer from the culture?

- Because all these years, we represent the current culture of such people who cannot speak positively. How many times I had to come to some place in England or in Italy, where the listeners asked me: "And what, didn't Russian culture end?" I say "No". And they say: "But we had such something, and he said that everything was already over." Since the end of the 80s, some PIR began: together with communism, they committed and with the Great Russian Culture - enough of this, it is repressive and so on. And they did the cultural figures themselves.

- In his latest book "Apology of mind" you write about a special property of mind - to think with all the merits, nature, and think through, from the bottom to the top. So you can only think about Dante? Or is it applicable and in politics?

- The thought of life and the idea of \u200b\u200bDante is the same thing, this is the idea of \u200b\u200bhow Dante sees life. For this, it is not even necessary to read the comedy. We are talking about a certain understanding of life that the so-called simple peopleEspecially peasants, for some reason, it always was much easier than formed.

- And where to learn this?

- Yes, the question is, of course, is that this is very little taught. The education system has ceased to work with a person. Education is the formation of a person. But I know teachers who were engaged in this. The same Bibikhin - his lectures were not just about the philosophy of Hydegger or Wittgenstein, it was a conversation about the world and life, it was the inclusion of another consciousness. In some sense, the same did Averintsev. Not about Vergilia we went to listen, he told us about something much more.

- Is such a way of thinking now available?

- It is always available, and he should not lose its attractiveness. A man in nature loves wisdom, beauty. He is pulling it. A person in any position should remember the value that this wisdom is. It seems that without it you can live, that this is an excess and need to learn in some many small things. But it must be remembered that in the root of life lies some understanding, some responsibility. We just forgot. The mind has reduced technical rationality that does not see the nearest consequences. Thinking is now very short.

- This ability is peculiar to our political education?

- Not very peculiar. I do not know at all, do we have a political education. Where do I have politicians? Previously - in party schools, and now where do they come from? They clearly have no generally political, generalization training.

- What would you suggest?

- I have a very simple, developed by life. Thought: a person should live in a much softer environment than we are accepted. At school, on the street since childhood, a person should feel a little beloved, respected - then it develops all the best. How to build a humane society, I do not know, but everyone in his place can do a little - give a person to be happy. Great art has this ability to bring happiness. Such artists are now very small in the world.

- You are an Orthodox person. There are rumors about a certain community in which you enter.

- No, I do not enter. I am an ordinary parishioner of an ordinary temple. But I have friends who used to be not in honor, called Kochetkov, because the founder of their community is the father of Georgy Kochetkov. Now their position in the church was completely corrected, no one blames them anything else. I'm not a member of this movement, I am their friend, I really like them. Every year, in autumn, they arrange conferences for different topics. Last year, she was dedicated to serving in the church and society - also one of the values \u200b\u200bthat we have disappeared. The ministry began to be treated cold, because propaganda claimed: Serve, serve, serve - the debris, party. For many, freedom turned out to be at all anyone and not to serve anything to live with his private life. This is a natural reaction. But everyone who was engaged in a person from a philosophical or religious point of view, knows that there can not live a person. After some time, this particular life will be empty and hated. A person needs to be something to serve, something should be more expensive for himself. His personal values \u200b\u200bare exactly what he serves something.

- Now the topic of this ministry arose again?

- While at least the dignity arises - straighten up, do not let go on themselves. But the need for ministry will also arise. I know people who work with orphans, with sick people, are a lot of them, and this is not connected with the authorities. When it stopped prohibiting, everyone understood that this could be done. But not immediately understood that it was also needed. We beat this idea - help. Man man friend, comrade and brother, but there is no one who will help the poor will regret the patient. And this still stands the Western World. At the same time, they themselves are called post-Christian, the number of executing rules of the Church is very small: in France, probably 3%, in England - 2%. But this world is built on Christian values.

- Is the Orthodox world?

- Now that the church has become legalized part of a common life, it included everything that was before in society. She absorbed people who read prayers, and in their heads of matter, the struggle of classes, is some horror. Christian or humane movement more often see not in the church, but simply in life. So, a person did not die.

- Can a modern state be based on traditional values?

- I am a secular state. The state should not have a religious justification. It in its plan is a pretty simple thing: this is such a system that, as Paul wrote, good protects good from bad. Why does his religion? It simply carries out some kind of justice. Orthodoxy should not have a privileged position, especially in Russia, where many different ver. Genuine Orthodoxy, of course, changes man. But how to pass it? I don't like to teach this in schools in schools. When unworthy teach worthy things, the generation of such Popovichi-Dobrolyubov is growing, there will be another population.

- Are values \u200b\u200bchange? Good, love?

- This is not about price, but about the condition of life. This is, without which it is impossible to live, the basis of humanity. And maybe even not only humanity. Here I had a cat recently. I saw in it any dedication and devotion. It was his life. Pushkin said: morality in the nature of things. If some alive part begins to live in spite of his surrounding, live only for yourself - I think she will die soon ... Remember the last line of Dante: "Love that drives the sun and shining"? it physical Law. Without this, everything ends.

In 1974, Olga Sedakov read his poems for the first time in the presence of Lotman in Tartu. Then Yuri Mikhailovich whispered her tech people Nikolay Tolstoy: "Do not make a scientist out of it, leave it by the poet." Sedakova also became the other, and someone else. Perhaps something like Kametonon, thinly tuned to the search for another, out-of-incorrect man of harmony, the subordination of which is happiness.

- Once at one meeting, you were asked a question from the hall: how many percent are all poems about God? You said: "All poems about God. Percent per sixty. " And on the rest of forty?

- You see, the rest of the forty I am simply not very interesting, they can be about anything.

- It's hard to have a gift?

- Oh, hard! You're never sure you have it. Now he is, and then it seems, he will never be more.

- How do you know when he is?

- Easily! That's how the sun looked out or dark.

- It is customary to argue that you are the only poet after Brodsky.

- I think that before! - innocently raises Sedakov's eyebrows. - I do not really love Brodsky. He is such a closing poet. And the grounds for such closing is not very much. Need novelty, but the novelty is informal. He spoke about the tongue all the time, and of course, not in the language. The fact is to have something to say. And he repeated all the time: "I have nothing to say." My mood flies when I read it.

- What should poetry give?

You know, I recently wrote two people, whom the same my poem - "Angel Reims" - saved from suicide. One of them lives in Italy, the other - in Switzerland. They read these verses in translation. The world of unfortunate young people who do not understand why live. They have nothing to do: everything seems to be worthless - civilization does not offer anything by itself. With one girl who wanted to commit suicide and after the "Angela Reims" thoughtfully, we even talked. I said: "You have so beautiful. I would have enough, look at the lake in the Alps. " And she: "No, beauty is not enough." She has everything. She loves her beautiful parents. She can not explain. It just makes no sense to get up in the morning. Every time - no sense. And I tell them a simple thing: you can live on.

Angel Reimsa

Dedicated to Francois Fedary

Are you ready? -

smiling this angel. -

I ask, although I know

that you are undoubtedly ready:

after all, I say not to anyone,

and you,

man whose heart will not survive treason

earthly your king

which is crowned here

and another lord,

The king of heaven, our Lamb,

dying in hope

that you will hear me again;

again and again,

as every evening

my name is expressed by bells

here, in the Earth of Excellent Wheat

and light grapes

and spikes and bunch

absorb my sound -

but anyway,

in this pink angry stone,

raising her hand

fucked on the World War,

still, let me remind:

are you ready?

To Moru, Glob, Press, Fire,

invasion of invalid

movable anger?

All this is undoubtedly important, but I'm not talking about it.

No, I am not obliged to remind.

I did not send me.

I say:

ready

to incredible happiness?

Olga Alexandrovna Sedakova - Poet, translator, philologist. Born in Moscow in 1949 in the family of a military engineer. Poems wrote from childhood. To school went to Beijing, where his father worked at that time. In 1973 he graduated from the Faculty of Philology of Moscow State University, the Slavic branch. Apprenticeship relationships associated it with S.S. Averintsev, Yu.M. Lotman, M.V. Panov, Vyach.VS. Ivanov, N.I. Tolstoy.

He independently studied several European languages \u200b\u200b(for example, Italian and German to be able to read Dante and Rilke in the original). He worked as a referent in foreign philology in Inion. Translated European poets, playwrights, philosophers, theologians. Thanks to this, many in the USSR met with new translations Rilke, Eliot, Tillya.

However, no poems nor the translations of Olga Sedakova until 1989 in the USSR were not published, only in samizdate. The first book of the poems came out in Paris in 1986.

To date, 46 books of poems, prose, translations and philological studies (in Russian, English, Italian, French, German, Hebrew, Danish, Swedish) have been published.

Since 1989, Olga Sedakov has been teaching in various universities in the world, reads public lectures, participates in festivals of poetry.

Since 1991, an employee of the Institute of World Culture (Philosophical Faculty of Moscow State University). Candidate of Philology. Doctor of theology Honoris Causa (Minsk European Humanities University). Winner of various premiums, including Alexander Solzhenitsyn's premium and Dante Aligiery, as well as the "Master" award of the Guild "Master of Literary Translation". Officer of the Ordena of the Arts of the French Republic, Academician of the Amvrosian Academy (Florence).

Catastrophe prevention

– Do I need to create a masterpiece to create a creative person?

- I can only talk about my own experience of relations with literature. And it is not indicative. Many things, key for the "literary process", mean nothing for me. This is another world, the world of "professionals", writers, critics. There is a production of literary products, and the question of its need is simply not put. It is quite legitimate and the world envisaged by the Architecture of the Human Society: another novel, essay, the book of poems ...

So that there are more poets, good and different, as Mayakovsky said. And readers for this will always be found. One of my familiar foreign poet said that it was necessary to produce a book of poems in more than once every two years - "otherwise you will be forgotten." I do not judge this world, just he is alien to me. I would believed that my experience is completely anomalous if there were no similar positions from the authors who nobody calls marginal. For example, Pasternak, who reigned on this line of Mayakovsky and wrote (still in his youth, in a letter to parents) that real verses are the thing is the rarest, like a diamond "Kohinor", and everything else is written only to this "Kohinor" under Divors do not find. Or Eliot, who advised young poets: "Try to write as little as possible." Or Rilke, who wrote - in his "testament" - that one poem takes a lifetime.

In the world that I would call mine, you are not "put in front of you the task," and they put it in front of you - or you know that it stands at all. Guess this task - this is where the gift.

Of course, the point is not to "create a masterpiece" and "put such a task". Poetry - and creativity in general - there is special ministry. The one who speaks about him may consider crazy. However. Composer Vladimir Martynov talked about how he wrote one of his essay due to the Gallea comet (it was, it seems, 1986) to prevent her collision with land, which would be a disaster.

This is a common task of art: the prevention of disasters. He spoke about Mandelstam on the anniversary of the death of Alexander Bloka: "Poetic culture arises from the desire to prevent a catastrophe, put it dependent on the central sun of the whole system, whether the love that Dante told, or music to which the block came in the end."

At that moment, when you write, you feel that everything depends on your solution. Most likely, this is an illusion. But - a working illusion. She considered it necessary for Scripture Lion Tolstoy. The Danish poetess Inger Christhens, with which I was lucky to meet: the only Lig of modern Europe, whom I would call the Great, is the same poetic blood that Eliot or Mandelstam. "Strange! She said. - When you write, it seems, the whole world depends on it. And then you don't remember this thing. "

– What is the meaning of the literature for the reader? You can be moral and happy without literature ...

- Undoubtedly, you can know the most important, the deepest things - and do not be able to read at all. Especially if you fell to be born in the complementary era. In Sardinia, in nuragh - monuments of ancient hundred-finished civilization, I just felt that the inhabitants of these round stone dwellings, from which only bronze sculptures remained, were no longer more stupid and certainly no less moral. Literature for this they did not need.

I can't imagine your life without reading. The pedigree difference is his bookshelf, wrote Mandelstam. Biography is largely too. Where did my childhood go? In the house, in the garden, with a grandmother - but also in the fairy tales of Pushkin! With the princess swan and korochiy Elisham. Where was the earlier adolescence? At school, in the Moscow House and in the Moscow region, but also in the medieval England "Avengo", and in the steppes " Captain's daughter"And in the Caucasus" MTSI ", and in Paris Hugo, and in London Dickens ... From all this, my life is compiled, a soul is compiled. I do not ask what was really - "Barrel on the sea floats" or a campaign with a nanny to the next store. Both "in fact". And - certainly - together.

"Read, trees, poems Gesiod!" .

If the interpenetration of the two of these reality does not occur, it is not worth reading. And the fact that in the old days called the "book of life", "Book of Memory" ("In the place of the Book of My Memory," how the "New Life" of Dante begins), composed of a set of different books - Books of nature, books of history, other "books", which we read all your life, not even knowing the alphabet on which they are written.

– For you, the experience of church life and poetic is something completely different? Or somehow intersects?

- For me, this is one life. I composed poems from infancy, but what can be called inspiration, I first experienced in 15 years. At the same time, I felt about church inspiration.

Since childhood, I knew Orthodoxy - in the face of my grandmother, in our infrequent campaigns to the temple, with her or with a nanny, in the words of prayers and passages from Psaltiri (grandmother showed me how to read in Slavyansky). It was very real to me - and it was a realistic fairy tale: color fire lamps, the taste of prosform, the smell of incense, heavy salary icons (salaries I noticed more than the images themselves), singing ... There was nothing like these sensations in the surrounding life And I really liked it all!

Then, by the way, it was not about "Orthodoxy" and the more not about the "svclock," and simply about the "faith": people were shared on the "believers" and "unbelievers", the "believers" were called church people. Orthodoxy my childhood was common, faithfully in the headscarves.

With the church intelligentsia, I met a lot later. In the families of the then intelligentsia, my girlfriends were housemates for faith. About this role "Soviet housekeeper" in an unbelonging family is remarkably told in the story of Boris Khazanova "I am resurrection and life." And in the senior school classes I was pulling me in the temple differently. I began to guess about what It's all: lamps, icons, prosphoras, golden vestments - and some kind of special poverty. But I consider it too intimate to further conversation about faith and its experiences.

I just say that, probably, my spiritual father of Archpriest Dimitri Akinfiyev was the most important person in my life. I met him when I was about 22, and I was up to his death with him, that is, more than thirty years. All his children remembers his extraordinary charity, freedom, truthfulness and genuine modesty. On his funeral (there was more than a hundred Moscow priests) One old woman said: "Good was the father and simple. And the Father of his communist was tortured "(his father, the Ryazan priest, who had a young died in a camp). A deep and wise man who saw everything in the light of Christ. And I wanted to see everything after him.

I think this is a rare case - so that the creative person has a confessor. The poet is generally religiously religious, but this spontaneous religiosity (in new times, in the Middle Ages was different) is usually difficult to compound with church life, with dogmatics, discipline, "okorping" (that is, by manuals). By the way, this word is often understood incorrectly, tying with the "feed". In fact, it is associated with the "feed" of the ship, "Kormchim".

Of these falsely understood church Slavonic words, my "Dictionary of difficult words from worship" was compiled. For example, there is the word "embittered", "Ozbobiti". This does not mean, as in Russian, "make evil". So, praying for the Sectoration of "every soul of embittered", we think about those who are offended, humiliated, offended, and not about those who "misunderstand" in the Russian sense.

Tightness and universe

– Someone poems compared with wires - but the question is: between what and what? And is there any subject image of the poetry for you?

- There is an abyss attempt to identify poems and poetry. This is, by the way, not the same thing. The same Mayakovsky, for example, said that he loves poems, but could not tolerate poetry. Mikhail Leonovich Gasparov, who I said these words of Mayakovsky, noticed: "And I also. And you probably, on the contrary? " He guess. With this choice, I would prefer the second, because I love poetry not only in the form of poems: Prambrandt poetry and the poetry of Mozart, poetry farewell and memory poetry ...

Believe me, I mean not what is often called "poetry" and "poetic", that is, something vaguely beautiful and sentimental. I mean something almost a physical, some element of the world, one of the best and most durable items. I tried to describe this incomplete poetry in the essay "Poetry outside the poem". Probably, this is what I had in mind Tolstoy, when after the death of his beloved brother wrote in his diary: Yes, everything is broken, deceptively, everything triggers. But what remains? And responsible: love - and poetry. The connection itself in one row of two of these immortal and unrequitable things, two forms of what is stronger than death, says more than any attempt to somehow define poetry or something like it.

Christians can not know about the championship and immortality of love. But they may not guessed about the immortality of poetry. This Apostle Paul has not written. Theology spoke very rarely. Although, it seems to me that the newest theologians think about it more, about poetry as the form of truth: you can recall our contemporary of the Greek Theologian Christ of the Yannaras or Archpriest Alexander Schmeman. I think that of three Christian virtues - faiths, hopes, love - poetry is closest of all hope.

Probably, most modern poems are not only with us, but also around the world (I met many modern poets different languages) - like-minded Mayakovsky. They also like successful poems - strong, bright, sharp, inventive, some other, but poetry (in the sense, in which I spoke about it) It is rather unpleasant if not hostile. So now accepted. It is customary to suspect everything that is not low, not finely, not ordinary.

This total skepticism has a justification: high - not trivial, not beastly high - st about iT is now more expensive than someday. Poetry after Auschwitz and Gulag. Love after Auschwitz remains. But is there a poetry? Many following the theodore are adorno that there is no. I think otherwise.

I started from the separation of poetry and poems, but this does not mean that poems, that is, the real, verbal-rhythmic house of poetry, "I don't like poetry within the poem". Otherwise, why do this? If you look for poems like - like the "wire about in "That best here would be a huge, almost immediately taken by a number, as in the" definition of poetry "and" Definition of creativity "at Pasternak in the" sister of my life ":

It is a cool whistle,
This is a clicker sampled ice,
It is a night chilling leaf,
These are two Solovyov Duel -

and three more stanzas ...

Pasternak begins with sound, touch and light (whistle and cold, bright night). But the main word in his "definitions" is "Universe", "Universe". In poetry, it is the universe, which is expelled from everyday life - or we are expelled from it in our everyday life. What kind of universe, when at the moment I need, for example, go to dry cleaning.

Sergey Averintsev somehow noticed that modern civilization is usually criticized for "consumerism", but it has a heavier defect: tightness. She is hermetically closed from experience other, from the universe as a whole. Archaic and traditional cultures were open to this experience. For this, childhood is open - early childhood, which is all - is going on in the universe, whether it is the universe of a bed or a bench in the garden. Then, maybe with youth (someone is much earlier) it goes. Our school (ours - in the sense of the school of our civilization, the school "scientific worldview") breaks the ridge by childhood, as Vladimir Bibikhin wrote. Poetry (and generally art: music, painting) remains a window in this deaf wall. Although modern art is most often completely social - and, thus, also hermetically, as the society itself and his problems.

I think that poems are rare, strange, favorite verses (beloved not reader, not author, but "In general" loved ones: it seems to me that it is immediately audible when reading the poetic text - Favorite words and sounds or not) - So, poems First of all, they liberate a person from the prison of his everyday experience. This experience does not include the universe, does not include the distance, it does not include depth. This is a solid series of worries and reactions, always forced, late reactions to what is happening. And poems discover the appearance that we always overtakes, which is always ahead, they open up their own depths and distance, on themselves as a participant in the universe (Christian-creation). Something there, gave and the depths of a person, completely different. Poems open the view and language: the word killed in practical use comes to life, reveals. Language in verse he speaks, Dancing, sings.

Oddly enough, not everyone can read poems. Start with questions: what does it mean? - And, not finding an answer, thrown to read. It requires a skill of another relationship with meaning. It is required not to disassemble the verse on individual "values", but let him talk to you in all its wholeness. On this integrity of the poetic sense, Paul Valerie (one of those poets, who are considered particularly "dark" and incomprehensible): "The poems seem to express themselves that inhatelligently expresses the interomotion, a short, tears." I will add from myself: and gesture. In the words of the poem, first of all, you need to hear this SNOW or sigh, see gesture poem.

By the way, the gesture, the posture, as anthropologists know, is the oldest form of religious expression, the first form of prayer. Man straightened, with hands raised to the sky. And several other gestures common to all ancient civilizations. The gesture of the deduction ("There is no living room to leave the care") and appeal to the sky.

To learn a poem as a whole, you need to go to the degree in the open distance. A person is not used to this: he always has no time to leave there; Cases, duties, "Problems". Here is the main difficulty, and not in the "misunderstanding" of individual words or images.

– Why do images and metaphors in the work work better than straight words?

- Not at all in metaphors. In Pushkinsky eight-grade "I loved you" there is no metaphor at all. Oh, no! One is, but quite weak, erased language metaphor - about love: " ugasla Not quite. " Behind it an ancient (and very Pushkin) the image of love as inner fire flashering and fading ("like a sacrificial flaper, my own love"). But the fact that it is in this line touches, just an image of love - ancient fire, Antica FIMMA, as Dante said, and prosaic, multivalued accuracy: "Not quite." "Not quite" at the same time rhymes with "nothing"! But a comment on this eightist would take a dozen pages, and I will stop.

In verses, we care or fascinates (ah, do not say, please, "works"!) Some kind of miracle saying. How did these words found each other? Why are they so good next to them? Why do they say that they say straight and still many things? How does this express appear in this expression - again the words of Pasternak - "Latitude of General"? Roman contemporary Horace - and I, his Moscow reader twenty centuries younger, we can read these words like "my words", "the words about me."

Solvitur Acris Hiems ...

It goes (literally: scattered like shackles) harsh winter ...

Unlocked not disappearing

– It was very strange to hear from you in some interview that you don't like to write. What do you, writing not one dozen books, meant?

- Yes, I do not like to write and always avoid it until the last. I do not write down almost anything that comes to mind. Sometimes in the back, I feel sorry that I did not write something important. But the unappointed also does not disappear! Maybe this feeling of me will fail. If the grapomania is a well-known thing, then I, apparently, a more rare disease for the writer - graftophobia. The fact is that I do not want to write superfluous. Extremely our cultural space and so risen - no less than the real garbage of civilization. I physically feel this cultural ecocatastro, this one-eyed noise, the flow streams, which are buried by everything rare and present. After all, the present and rare meek, and C Sorrow is aggressive. The protection of the cultural environment "Green" has not yet thought.

Yes, to write something, I must be sure that it is necessary, it is worthy of fixation. And it rarely happens, "two times two". But at the same time, I live in the air of many images, paintings, thoughts that I do not pull me at all, and the more publish. And maybe this is my work - to live in this air.

– You spoke somewhere that you write poetry in the mind. It was since childhood? Sorry for curiosity, but "kitchen"the truth is very interesting. It happens that the writing of the poem is stretched on weeks? Did you remake something after a while?

- Yes, I always write in mind, since childhood. Even long things. I already write ready. Therefore, almost everything he wrote to verses, I remember by heart. This, in my opinion, the first check - your favorite verses or not: Is it possible to keep them in the mind. Why torment other random splashes of their psyche?

From the "beginning" of the poem (that is, from its first "ridiculous" phenomenon, almost without words) before writing, words can be held years. It lives inside, picks up words, rhythms, paintings - and eventually can give a completely unexpected result. And it happens on the contrary: everything is instantly and immediately. But this instantaneous phenomenon is presented to me to collect long experience. Suddenly, as when hitting some zipper,

everything came true
Everything in the chest merged and swielded.

everything that was in it a long time ago, but remained scattered, scattered, distilled.

You never had to redo something from writing before. But it happens that, reading out loud, I imperceptibly change something - and I remember already in this form. I understand this folk existence of my own texts, I understood the back of the first large book of poems (it was published in 1994 in the publishing house "Gnosis"). There were a lot of options in Samizdat copies - they followed the signature readings. It is amazing that I often could not say which of the options is correct.

Composer Sofia Gubaidullina says that at first she is like a vertical of her future essay, a one-time common sound, and then she already unwinds him horizontally, in sequence. My experience probably looks like. It is still unknown, "What is it" about or in which rhythms - but something like the simultaneous overall sound ... The sequence of words and images as a chord.

– You were "officially not existing poet ",you were not published. Didn't it feel about some senselessness of life? And if you had no public recognition (and even samizdat - this is also public recognition) - would you suffer?

- Now there is no, and in his youth, at the beginning of the way, undoubtedly - yes. Not even "public recognition", and the approval of those whose opinion is expensive for you. It's not about praise (stupid praise is offensive, as Pushkin noted). The young poet requires encouragement. He needs someone to hurt him. "Well, come on, come on!" Such "fans" does not have to be much. There were times when I had enough one. But qualified. This that can tell me and what I do not know yet.

In this regard - reader participation - it was lucky to me. Not only because the texts diverged in Samizdate - and I, without publishing a row, could meet my reader from another end of the Earth, from Kamchatka, for example. But because I always had amazing readers. Musicians, artists, philologists, thinkers ... People are discerning.

In our generation "Second Culture", the talented poets died and not having met with the reader.

And publicly "not existing" by the author I remained in some sense until this time. It seems to be attentively reading in translations, in other countries (not only "Western": I recently came out the book of poems in Chinese). There (judging at least in prizes and titles, but also on research) My public status is clearly higher. Essisics There also causes a more explicit response. Our writers and critics of my name do not commemorate publicly - just as it was in the Brezhnev years. Is it bitterly for me? Sometimes very. And sometimes it seems that this is natural. Not everyone is interesting.

– Are you afraid of literary death and literary oblivion?

- No I'm not afraid. I, in fact, from a public literary death in the domestic literature seriously and did not go out. And there is nothing to forget: they just did not know.

Go there, I do not know where

– You somehow said: "I did not understand this because I did not write about it. "The author writes to understand something?

- You can only see something with it. Otherwise, it is a superficial chatter, shuffling ready and other people's words. And I can be with something I can, when I'm trying to say this, at least myself. Saying "understand", I do not mean "give a definition." "Sorry! Even in the death hour, I will not cease to understand, "wrote Rilke: that is, to delve, peer, do transparent. There is such a call: to understand - in this sense. It is very distracting from participation in general affairs.

I do not take to answer why the author of his prose or poetry itself. In my case, this is what justifies my existence. Not the only thing that justifies him, but still, I confess, for me the main thing. Why do you need to justify for what you exist? After all, you did not solve it - exist? I do not know. Maybe this is the wines that Heraclit spoke (everything is separate to the whole). Or maybe this is intuition of life as a task. "Go there, I do not know where, I do not know what." Do not guess this task, do not fulfill it - it is tormented.

– And the real work is obtained from pain or from joy?

- The expression of pain, the expression of joy is not yet creativity. For this you can not resort to verses, drawing or music. Creativity does not express, but creates. Rilke wrote about the mistake of poets:

... as sick,
They find the words more than
To indicate where it hurts. Meaning
Their case is to transform into word.
So mason shifted himself
In a big balance of the cathedral.

It may be like this: creativity arises from the attack of some unprecedented freedom, from that feeling that you are unknown why, found himself at the central point of the world. Like that chamber in which the heroes of Stalker are striving to get. But, unlike the plot of "Stalker", the property of this place is not that your desire will be heard and fulfilled, but that something new should be sounded in this place, something that is not yet - And what is extremely necessary ...

One of the best motives of creativity is a grateful desire to "save forever", not to give him the abyss without recall. The oldest form of poetry - anthem.

– You said that in my youth wanted to create something significant, like Dante, for example. Is it still ahead? Or already created?

- You understand that to answer your question is informatively (yes, already created!) - Too much indispensable. I can answer yourself. As known, biblical Century A person is "seventy years, and with a big fortress - eighty," so, in the already not far from this point on the "ways of our life", as Dante said, you can afford a frankness. I am confident that I touched the same matter that the most serious poets knew. This is a high voltage matter. A lot or little of this matter is built - another question. Significance is not quantified. In a great thing, it does not have to be a hundred songs, as in the "comedy" of Dante. It may have several lines. But they must have all the universe. In each word, at every point.

As for the future - I can only hope that something will be shown to me. I really want it.

– Do you feel on yourself that "who is given a lot, from that much and asked "?

- I feel with my childhood that with me sun.e. asked. Actually, everyone will ask everyone, but someone may not think about it, but I can't. Each of our word and act begins a number of consequences, to trace which we ourselves cannot - but for the beginning of this movement we are responsible. I know (I would say "I feel" - it would be too weak) that everything we do is irreversible - and if reversible, then only a miracle in the most serious sense of the word, that is, the grace of God.

As Rilke wrote in the same "Requiem":

Who will follow the consequences of a deed
In the nearest tree - and who
Will go there where everything leads to all?

I do not want to be the cause of the offensive and ugly things - voluntarily or unwittingly. With "freely" easier, but about the "unwittingly" need to think and think.

Man is not what he is

– There is an opinion that first it would be good to cleanse the passions, and then write - so as not to bring your passions and not pour them into the reader. How sinner has the right to be a writer? Or, on the contrary, how much does it have to be to have moral right to write?

- "Frequent recognition" as literature is not what I love. If the author's confession is before us - who is he confess? The reader does not have the authority to let go of sins. He will simply accept them, with sympathy or with condemnation. Perhaps the essay itself has a therapeutic force: work with harmony, which will certainly lead from "their own, too," in the "latitude of common". So Baratynsky:

Singer, according to poured,
Allowed from all his sorrows.

As for preliminary purification ... It depends on what the author is being prepared. Valentin Vasilyevich Silvestrov said that, starting to compose liturgical chants, he "expelled the composer." That is, the "composerhood" itself, the search for "interesting", "new", intente-in-room moves in this case turns out to be sin. The great courage to decide that the sophisticated person (and you himself) seems to be banal or outdated. This is the humility of a big artist - and his audacity.

– Somehow said that you know a lot of people who would agree to be considered rather bad than mediocre, and that many of the whole life lasts this unfortunate affair with himself: Serious me or not seriousness? And as this " many "to calm down

- I can advise one thing: to solve this question for yourself anyway (yes, I am mediocre - or: Yes, I am a genius) and engage in other affairs, no longer distracting. I always seemed strange this question - like the famous question of Raskolnikova: "Napoleon I or the creature trembling?" First, I do not know who I will be the next moment - creature or Napoleon. Yes, and Napoleon somehow for me.

Once in the morning one friend called me and a crushed, completely crushed voice spoke: "Olga Aleksandrovna! I can not live! I am nothing! " - "I, too, - I replied, - and what?" "So," he said, "you have the forces to carry your own insignificance, and I do not have."

Speaking seriously, a person is not what he is (or thinks that there is), but what he can become.

The tradition of silence about faith

– One writer who has already lives twenty years in the West, said in an interview: you know, in matters of faith I am a western person, there this question is very intimate, and there to ask a person about his attitude to God is simply indecent. Is it really so? Why? Most Russian Orthodox talks about their faith willingly ...

- First, there is no one "West" in this regard. The position in the UK, let's say, is significantly different from Italian. In general, the intellectual society, university, political in Europe avoids public discussion of the issues of faith. The state jealously protects its secular status. The United Europe also conceived as a secular education (an article on the Christian roots of Europe is not included in its constitution, as some were offered).

But there are other circles where it will not agree with the fact that faith is a completely private, intimate matter. These are "practitioners" Christians. I am familiar with many people, with clerics and laity, with Christian movements in Italy and in France. They talk about faith, and think, and act according to their faith, without hiding this.

In such Catholic movements, like "Communion E Liberazione" or "Brotherhood of St. Egidia, many intellectuals and even politicians. At the same time, unlike our politicians who recommend themselves to Orthodox, they are by no means retrograde and prohibitors. This new post-co-cut Catholicism (I mean - after the Second Vatican Cathedral), we do not know at all. This is a huge change of paradigm. Their sample is not Middle Ages, but the first apostolic times of the church.

As for our, "Frequently speaking about their faith," then I, as a rule, is unbearable to listen to them. Because they say they are often indecent.

By the way, we have our own tradition to be silent about faith. Now this does not remember. It comes from the times of Soviet atheism, when these topics were absolutely prohibited. Vera lived Potedly. Cross children were fastened by pins to the lower shirts. Yes, and adults ... If the doctor, for example, I saw a cross on a chain, on the neck, as it should be, he was just dumbfounded (with me it happened that happened). It was already a challenge! This is in the 60s - 70th. In the 80s it was easier. But besides all the prohibitions, silence among the hostile medium was a way to avoid the borders.

My university professor N.I. Tolstoy inspired his children that at school about faith is better to be silent, because it is an intimate matter like love. So did many believers. Was it a sunburn? I do not think. We recognized each other without words. But what about the preaching, confession of faith? After all, a Christian without confession of faith does not exist. Vera shared with those in whom saw readiness to listen.

There was still a way to speak indirectly. Sergey Sergeevich Averintsev lectures in Moscow State University "Byzantine aesthetics" collected crowds, and many of his listeners turned to faith and church. In the second year, these lectures were banned as "religious propaganda". But it was not propaganda in the usual sense of the word: these were brilliant academic lectures, a subtle analysis of theological thoughts. Averintsev was not declared. He gave his listener and reader to admire the depth and paradoxicalness of this world, to carry them on them - and come to that source, to the center, from which all this great civilization was emitted. Actually, all the works of Averintsev were a kind of new apologetics. Next to this, the current level of conversation about religious topics is different as parody will not call.

– When you after "iron Curtain "for the first time turned out to be in the West - what is the strongest feeling you had?

- The first thing struck me, and struck to the very depths, is the very fact of the existence of this world in physical reality. Westminster, Notre Dame, Capitol - Oh, how we knew it! Averintsev hit the locals, leading a tour of Paris for Parisians. Who and when in which house lived ... he knew where to roll from one street to another. How can I find out if you never see? They were amazed. But it was located all this, a favorite and familiar friend, somewhere in Platonic reality - or "in our never." For the first time in England, looking at Westminster, I told my English-England satellite: "I thought I would never see it!" "So you're in your never - in your never", "my companion answered with British resourcefulness.

And this, as you think, is not a crime - to deprive several generations of educated people the opportunity to see the subject of their study? French and English we taught from Russian teachers who themselves never heard live speech and studied Russian themselves. German is another matter: Our GDRs existed, Germany, as-nothing.

After the first shock I met this "other world" much closer. I went through the light, and not at all with tourist excursions, and not only with brief visits (performances at conferences and festivals, presentations of books). I had to live and teach entire semesters as a "guest poet" (Visiting Professor) in England, France, Italy, USA ... I learned a lot that I would not know from reading. The life of the space that you call the "West" is no longer "their" for me, and "our" life. This space is filled with expensive people, friends, readers and interlocutors.

– In a small European town at six in the morning, when the market opens, the peasants lay out the goods and sing - every one is something under his breath. It is difficult to imagine that. Does this mean that they are happier?

- I repeat: there is no Western man. There is an Italian, he knows how to be happy. There is a German, and he, as a rule, can not. My friend, the German poet, said that only agreed in Rome, he understood what "just live". Before him, it also understood Goethe. "We, Germans, do not know how to live: we can serve. And when there is nothing to serve, we do not know what to do with them, "Walter told me so.

– And what is valuable for you in life in Russia? After all, you do not live constantly in the West, it means that there is why come back here?

- For more than twenty years of wanderings, I have never come to mind not to return. Rather, on the contrary: I've gotten from afar, I saw Russia better. Not cash, but possible. What do I love in her? It always seemed to me that this land is full of some expectation, some not yet appeared. Significant silence (Russians, as it seems to me, can somehow be particularly silent, not refueling; but other Russians chat with particularly looseness). Talent, which is somehow connected with this gift of silence.

Rilke wrote: "Russia borders with God." I would say that Russia, which I love, bordered by poetry. I speak last time because last years Make me a lot to doubt it. Maybe, that Russia, which was able to survive - somewhere captive, in the bear corners, in the basements - and the Soviet nightmare, now and in fact ended. Most depresses me as far as student What happens to us is and what is said.

Than expensive fear

– Who is bigger "blame ",what is the modern church and the creative intelligentsia is not very, gently expressing, are close? And how about this in Catholicism and in West Orthodoxy, in Greece, for example?

- The relationship of the modern church with the intelligentsia and in general with the culture (not only modern!) - misfortune, if not a scandal. In fact, a whole chain of scandals.

Return back to Soviet times. And high secular culture, and the church were playing ideology. And they stretched to each other. The phenomenon of Sergey Averintsev is the best example of this new Union of Faith and Culture. The previous attempt of such a convergence is the beginning of the twentieth century; It was born "Russian religious thought", the phenomenon of world importance. Quotes from Bulgakov and Florensky, and even from Berdyaev, are found in Pappa encyclicks John Paul II. The meeting of faith and culture continued in Orthodox circles in exile, especially in France. And now, after all this - "True believers" pitchens, who are rowed by museum exhibits!

I do not know what happens in Greece in Greece. But I know that the situation in Catholicism is not bad. There is nothing like that, you can simply imagine. The Church respects culture, mind, man talent, his creative gift. John Paul II in the anniversary 2000 year wrote the message to "artists of the world", where he says that the artist's person is the image of the Creator, and inspiration can be compared with the action of the Holy Spirit. John Paul II himself was a poet and playwright.

It is impossible to say that modern Western culture meets this gesture of the church reciprocity. In postmodern art, irony, parody, provocation, destruction predominate. But that believers answer this by raids and pogroms?!

– You said that the last 30 years of the history of our country is the period "Exodus. "Maybe there are still 10 years old, and we will finally reach the ground promised?

- especially in the 90s who just did not compare the wreck of the communist regime with a biblical event! Escape from slavery, path to freedom. All comparisons are chromassed, and this too. At least because no Moses was found here. But for a long time it really seemed that Egypt was left behind and we are difficult, with a lot of costs and nonsense, still moving towards freedom, legality, public defense.

Over the past two years, the vector definitely has changed to the opposite. With acceleration, we are moving even there, from where they came out, - to "Stast", late socialism, and in the Dohrushchensky times, for something like post-war Stalinism. Enemies, agents, spies, national interest traitors - all political rhetoric from there. Yes, this is not rhetoric, it is a civilian death for all dissent.

It is interesting to remember that in Brezhnev times about spies and agents did not speak. Dissidents preferred to judge criminal articles or recognize mentally ill, and not agents and spies. Probably because the defalenization did not go completely without a trace, and even remembered that the main articles on which people were sent to the camps and were killed, there were just spying and work on the enemy (in the film "Repentance" it is shown in all its glory). And suddenly - such complete amnesia.

What else? Complete insulation of Russia in the world. I am not a political scientist and not economist, and I am not going to view the entire current situation. I just say that I do not see any good way out of it. This is the way to a nightmare. Sorry for children.

– Your quote: "Very, very few of the current Orthodox can consider themselves the heirs of the opposite Orthodoxy. "What did you mean? Faith as value for which you can die? But no one knows whether he is able to die for faith or not ... And not being the heir of the persecution of Orthodoxy, it is impossible to become a real Christian?

- No one can judge about readiness to die for faith. In the late Soviet times, which I found, we were talking about blood strands. For "religious propaganda" it was possible to be in prison. But this "propaganda" was engaged in a few. For the rest, it was not more than the impossibility of a career. The point is not ready for the sacrifice, but in the motivation of the parish to church. In the chamber, the forbidden church comes the people of one warehouse, in the official - the other. Thus, there was a life of the "inner man", by this, mainly - joining the "Fathers faith". Personal in this case is significantly less.

– A few years ago in an interview, you talked about the care of fears from our people. Are they left?

- I hurried. Now we see that the fears did not go anywhere. Just for a while we stopped us seriously frighten.

– It seems that we do a lot of fear - for example, from fear to be bad or incomprehensible. And we go against conscience and against yourself. What do you think about fear as a motive of existence?

- I talked about a specific fear - fear of your authorities who are mercifully than any conqueror. About fear as a general motive of human existence is needed another, philosophical or theological conversation. And about the alarm - which, maybe even more fundamental than fear. Anxiety - as if unfocused fear. Unlike fear, it does not have a specific subject. Anxiety and courage - a worthy answer to the alarm - the German Theologian Paul Tillich was engaged in. His book "Courage to be" last year entered my translation.

But about fear. When Beatrice's "Divine Comedy" is Vergilia, sending him to Dante, and Vergilus asks how she was not afraid to go down to hell, Beatrice answers:

You should only be afraid of those things
Which may cause evil to another;
The rest is no, for it is not scary.

(Hell, II, 88-90)

And this is not a Christian teaching! This is a quote from Aristotle's "nicone ethics". Try seriously afraid of this - and the other will be not so scary. Aristotle already knew that fear was expelled not fearlessly, but another fear.

– What, in your opinion, the main need of a person, without which his life is not entirely human?

- I will not call one "main need" and one sign "completely human" life. In order not to delete our conversation from this, you will call two things: the world - and freedom (or, more precisely, hope for freedom). The world in the sense I said about: all the universe, something else than you yourself, something stronger and more interesting than you. "Their stronger", as V.V. wrote Bibikhin Surprisingly, right? To be "quite a person," you need to have something "stronger person."

And the second thing: Hope for freedom from evil ...

Poems Olga Sedakova

Unfortunate
Who talks with the guest and thinks about tomorrow;
unfortunate
Who does the case and thinks he does him,
and not the air and the beam they water
as a brush, butterfly, bee;
who takes the chord and thinks
What will be the second, -
Unfortunately fearful and stingy.

And more miserable,
Who does not forgive:
He, insane, does not know
As a stork manual from bushes stands,
like a bowl of golden
take off by itself
In a cute sky over cute land.

Angel Reimsa

Dedicated to Francois Fedary

Are you ready? -
Smiling this angel. -
I ask, although I know
that you are undoubtedly ready:
After all, I say not to anyone,
and you,
man whose heart will not survive treason
Earthly your king
which is crowned here
And another lord,
The king of heaven, our Lamb,
dying in hope
that you will hear me again;
again and again,
as every evening
My name is expressed by bells
Here, in the Earth of Excellent Wheat
and light grapes
and spikes and bunch
absorb my sound -
but anyway,
In this pink angry stone,
raising her hand
Fucked on the World War,
Still, let me remind:
are you ready?
To Moru, Glob, Press, Fire,
invasion of invalid
movable anger?
All this is undoubtedly important, but I'm not talking about it.
No, I am not obliged to remind.
I did not send me.
I say:
you
ready
To incredible happiness?

Did you know,
Dwarf pines, weaving willow?
Turning boat
not long go to the shore -
And neither joy
what happened
And neither pity:
We are all here today, and tomorrow - who will say?
And no mind:
Some perfume perfectly,
modest, fearless and merciful -
Simple admiration
Nothing stops
simple admiration
set, like the sun.
Turning boat
Flowing without reflecting,
Bloomred branch
Greet, but not under this sky.

From the book Marina Nefedova

"Mirians: who are they? How to find yourself in Orthodoxy

A. Blok // Mandelshtam O. Collected Works: In 4 tons. M., 1994. T. 2. P. 256.

The beginning of the poem of the same name N. Zabolotsky.

Theodore Adorno (1903-1969) is a German philosopher, sociologist. He belongs to the words: "Write poems after Auschwitz is barbarism."

A line from the poem B. Pasternak "Not like people, not weekly ..."

M. Tsvetaeva.

"Requiem count von Calcroit." My translation (O. S.). Translated the two important epithet. Rilke: "So the evil chump bricker shifted myself."

The second Vatican Cathedral (1962-1965) laid the beginning of the update and reasonable reform of the Catholic Church, which was supposed to become an open world.

Nikeya's publisher invites books to the presentation Marina Nefedova "Miry: who are they? As in Orthodoxy find yourself. "

• Date: February 18, 2016
• Collection of guests at 19:00
• Location: Cultural Center "Pokrovsky Gate", ul. Pokrovka, d. 27, p.1

The meeting will take part:

Olga Sedakova - Russian poet, prose, translator, philologist and ethnographer, laureate of many literary premiums

Jean-Francois Tiri- Head of the Cultural Center "Pokrovskoe Gate"

Boris Sergeevich Bratus - Doctor of Psychological Sciences, Professor, Corresponding Member of RAO, Head of the Department of General Psychology of the Faculty of Psychology of Moscow State University. M.V. Lomonosov, Scientific Director of the Faculty of Psychology of the RPU.

Elena Alshanskaya - Director of the Charitable Foundation "Volunteers to help children-orphans"

Maria Krasovitskaya - Lecture professor Liturgika Pspong. Author tutorial "Lighturgika: course of lectures." Large mother.

Olga Sedakova's poet - about his vision of modern intelligentsia, the values \u200b\u200bof humanitarian education, the deafness of the political elite and the outdatedness of "current art".
You were familiar with Schnitke, Venedikt Yerofeev, Brodsky. Is there a trait on which you can immediately determine these people as great?

She was not familiar with the shnik. With Brodsky, the acquaintance was very short, three days in Venice. With Wennedikt Erofeev - yes, it is many years of communication. With other significant people, I had the happiness to communicate or even be friends, famous or not. With Pope John Paul II, with Sergey Sergeyevich Averintsev, with Yuri Mikhailovich Lotman, with Vladimir Veniaminovich Bibichin.

When now I am writing their names, I get better. What are all them - and others who are not named here, "distinguished? One common feature: independence. They remained free in choosing and judgments, no matter how appreciated others, fashion or "general opinion". His criteria were more important to them, their sincere life. How somewhere he wrote an elite in response to the fact that "a cultural person should take something or something": "Then I will not be a cultural person, if you need to recognize what is disgusting to me." Averintsev, knowing that his judgments can be called "Hangees", the first called herself as follows: "With my sore point of view ..." So I don't care if I call me the reactionary, Hangehog, Elitarist ... Call as you want.

Now they talk a lot about the formation of a new intelligentsia. Who are these new, if it is generally appropriate to use this term?

These are people who are trying on themselves personally, not referring to official structures, do something that corrects our position: to defend the architectural monuments, help seriously ill and orphans, etc. And they turn out.

Generally speaking, this is not a question about the intelligentsia. For philanthropy and volunteering higher education Completely optional. Other: a certain understanding of the meaning of human life, willingness to disinterested actions and, as Yuriy Lotman said, "an expanded understanding of personal". That is, when a person considers not only private, family, professional concerns to his personal life, and much of what is happening in the world. It can be assumed that this ability is developing more educated person.

In Soviet times, free volunteering was unthinkable, in the post-Soviet, with all passion it was engaged in private life. For someone it meant to survive, for someone - to pretend. Give and serve something seemed irrelevant. And for the first time we see philanthropic, volunteer type of intelligentsia. I really like this movement. In the image of the same intelligentsia, there was some almost comic impracticality. But you are "new" intellectuals: successful, business. The word "intellectual" I eat after Sergey Averintsev without any evaluation: this is a person engaged in mental labor and educated, humanitarian, natural or technical.
Converter for God

What names are indicative today for this strata?

Tatyana Viktorovna Krasnova - the first name for me. She, a superbly educated person, organized an informal association "Envelope for God" - collecting funds for the treatment of children who have no one to help. Responsible, skillful handling of reality, completely unexpected in our latitudes. In addition, dealing with such things, people learned to unite - the ability to be fatally lacking in all layers of society.

People traveled, looked and saw what a normal European person, a normal American man who relatively well-being and is not engaged solely struggle for survival. Now that the state does nothing and is unable to do, even if he wants, then people themselves take. The decisive fracture occurred in the situation with fires *, when a volunteer movement began on their extinguishing. Everyone saw that some kind of new force was released, which was not before and in which people enlightened play, probably leading a leading role.
Salvation from entropy

The historical mission of the intelligentsia is opposed to power. Can it change?

Depends on power. If the power makes reasonable things, why should it be half alarmed with it? We, unfortunately, the other situation. Collaborate with such power becomes just dishonest. In the heuristic sense, this opposition is completely uninteresting. Defend such insane news as "not don't steal"? Or explain that people naturally have different views and can not be banned from expressing them? And that their other glances do not because someone paid them for it because of the border and they want to destroy the country? Or that laws should be alone for everyone? We are put in such a situation that there are great courage. You need to be ready for the sacrifices to say that there is no need to steal!

I read your report, where you, remembering Dante, reasoned about the need for the emergence of a new noble person. Not too hierarchical looks today?

If society does not distinguish quality from poor quality and does not respect high-quality, it moves to entropy. There are unvealing equality: before the law, legal equality, equality of rights. There is no equality of opportunity. There is no equality between smart and stupid, educated and ignorant, mean and decent. Insisting on the equality of this kind, we proceed from democracy to the totalitarianism of the new type.
"Simple person" does not exist, you emphasize. But the industry works for him ...
The meaning is that the "simple person" is a project, design. They decide in advance for him that it is too difficult for him that he is interested, and what is not. And then this designed figure is filled with those who accept the terms of the game. The pop culture industry creates its consumer: it makes a "simple" from a normal person. As for success and efficiency, remember, Homer has one wizard very well and effectively turned the satellites of Odyssey in pigs. We passed this experience of the doctrinal populism, the Western world by their own way goes to him.
Infallibility

You are not worried about the exacerbated anticleric position of most of the new intelligentsia?

I do not think that it is those who are called a new intelligentsia, very anticlequal. Artistic avant-garde, actual art - yes. In general, some "divorce" of the church with the intelligentsia occurs. The fierce grows on both sides. It's not just sad for me, it's scary. But I'm not ready to discuss it now.

You do not think that the splicing of the church and the state is going on, what are many talking about today?

I think that our present power does not want too much power of the church at all. Use the church as a new ideology as a obedient tool - yes. Our official religion becomes patriotism, which means simply the humility of the cash and hatred of its enemies. Sacred militarism - at the same time without care for the army! Christian voice will not listen to this power. Here Luzhkov, I remember, adopting baptism, publicly stated that he personally does not have any need for confession, because the conscience of his clean. Not only such Orthodox - such normal people Just does not happen!

What is the reason for your extremely negative attitude to the current government?

She assigned a completely illegal amount of rights. None of her solutions cannot be challenged. It only answers violence or threats of violence. Its solutions are beneficial only to the corporate interests of those who are included in this power group. No enemy would bring the country more harm than these "patriots". It seems they have lost even instinct self-preservation. In order for the population to support you, it is impossible to rob him, deceive and, not warning, pull into different situations that we see, for example, in Moscow: the Christmas trees are digging up, then museums will come up with something. So that in ten years there is no competent person here. That will be banned by cats "stump at night."

What do you associate the latest events with the "stripping" of the humanitarian sphere, when "ineffective" humanitarian universities want to eliminate: the Research Institute of Art and Litin, the Litinist, Conservatory?

Why do they do it? Because the humanitarian sphere creates a person of a more free, thinking, with which it is much more difficult to manage. This is a strategy to reduce the cultural level of the population.
Contemporary Plutarch

You talked about the drop in the intellectual level of discussions after the Pussy Riot promotion ...

All this happens long ago, since the 90s. Latestrian time had secret societies, sources, elite. And the intellectual level was much higher there. Then I had familiar Europeans who came here and said: you are good, because you have no modernity. You can read Plutarch as your contemporary.

Stagnation contributes to development?

Promotes the development of much deeper metaphysical and historical interests. This development has replaced us with politics. We read both Plato and Aristotle. As Averintsev said, we felt themselves in secret collusion with them with everyone. And in the 90s, when suddenly was relevant, she very distracted from the interests of another kind.

Now - stagnation?

Maybe the new stagnation will begin and the plato will be read again or something else. In some young people, I suddenly find out our interest, let's say, to Eliot, Stravinsky. I know many young musicians, philosophers who again wanted to communicate with a more serious world.

How do you feel about the efforts of the protest language, which through the same Pussy Riot or the ART group "War" became in demand with us?

For me, this is the language of the past. Putting of this kind were news at the beginning of the last century. We have the meaning and sharpness of all this is the official persecution. In Liberal Society, it has long been boring to the impossibility. Boring, predictable, inflated, in the end. We have a different situation. For the persecuted, you have to condescend. We have sensitive prohibitions: it is extremely easy to remove it. But since I am in some sense of the "dwelling of two worlds" and I drive a lot in the world, I look at it from there as a chronic attack, longing mortal.

Do not see anything creative?

In the share of the type "war"? They have no task. That's what it really looks like new - it is flash drives, when unexpectedly for everyone on the square or at the station, the musicians are going and playing (and playing with high professionalism) something that is used to listen to in particularly highlighted spaces for high arts: the Symphony final Beethoven, for example. And all others are involved in this action. Swell, conduct. Or how are my familiar young Italians, a hundred songs group (in three parts of the "comedy" of Dante, it is a hundred songs): they are starting to read on the streets of the "Comedy" of Dante on the streets. And the crowd is going! Journalists asked these street listeners Dante: What attracts you here? And they heard a completely unexpected answer for themselves: "Finally something difficult! So it was tired that everything is primitive. " Here is a "simple person." It can be said that this is a kind of share witness. But messenger of such shares is directly opposite: they raise the "man from the street" to the impressions of another level. Before joy, before admiration, to collective participation in the best. And they do not live in all the senses of the feelings of their rubbish.

There is another family of resistance to mainstream (because "current art" has long been manestream). You can call it niche culture. It is a kind of clubs, free associations of people in interest that ignores and mass culture, and "current art". I had to be in such associations in Europe. For example, in Reims there is a center of readers of poetry, which is called "Archipelago" and the main figure of which Helderlin was elected. Those who in this society are consisting of developing and inviting the author with a certain reputation, one or two per year. Remove the city theater and arrange reading. Club members go to Reims from all over France.

It is useless to argue with mainstream. It is necessary to leave him his space - a huge, who has taken all the massia and exhibition sites, - and let them know, puts his painted corpses and other no less elegant works until the whole of the public leaves. And it is better to arrange other spaces.
People of freedom

Olga Sedakova - Poet, Prose, translator, Philologist, Candidate of Philological Sciences, Honorary Doctor of theology of the European Humanitarian University (Minsk). He teaches the theory of the theory of the world culture of the Philosophy of the Faculty of MSU, the Senior Researcher of the Institute of History and the theory of World Culture of Moscow State University. The first book of the poems came out in Paris in 1986. Printed translations from European literature, philosophy, theology (Francis Assis, Dante, Ronsar, John Donn, Rilke, Heidegger, Eliot, etc.), articles about the work of Pushkin, Nekrasova, Khlebnikov, Pasternak , Akhmatova, Mandelstam, Tsvetaeva. The most complete editions are a two-volume poems. Prose "(Moscow, 2001) and four-member" Poems. Translations. Poetica. MOLIA "(University of Dmitry Pozharskoe, Moscow, 2010).

No, I did not attend the literature Russian talents and fans. Go to any bookstore - there are good people again and learn good books. And what selection of authors - eyes scatter. Who is there only no ...
There is no Olga Sedakova. She never anywhere. Nor in secular parties, nor on blue screens, nor on book showcases. In a conversation with literary critic Valentine (United Kingdom), Sedakova clarifies the roots of his special relationship with the literary world: I was a renewent in the Soviet society and was accustomed to this. ... I thought about and experienced this gap - not only with the regime, but it seemed to be with the whole country (except for the same as I, the renegades) - not as a misunderstanding, but like my life, as a starting position for everything else. ... I did not wait for anything else to the end of life. Return from such a mea to the public sphere is not easier than from emigration. I do not exaggerate: extinguishing in your own country - I know the taste of this salt. I have no one to be in public life. And I do not name there. Public literary life changed the scenery, but on stage the same heroes.

In the review of writing scandals, replaced in the means mass media An overview of literary events, Sedakova shines its absence. Maybe it is correct. She is too smart to seek cheap fame, and her poetry is too good to become a walking product. Judge for yourself:

We are in the shadow we leave, and there, in the shadow,

as in the vehicle running,

with you I will talk,

oh silent land

as Rascharchny Zlak says,

kissing rivers legs

as the buried treasure says,

forgotten man.

So she speaks with the reader - very quietly, as if from the shadow. Speaks removed from the height of pride, from the depths of humility. From the shadows and silence, from the northern restraint of a faithful gesture, from the sovereign country, the grief and the grace of Sedakov displays their poetic theme - transparent, like initial key water, and confused as the water of the blunt stream.

The only more or less complete publication of her poetry and prose was published in 2001 with a circulation of 1000 copies and sold hardly in 2-3 stores of the capital. But what is surprising - the world hears her. Olga Sedakova - Laureate of the most prestigious literary awards: Paris Prize Russian Poet (1994), European Poetry Award (1996), award. Vladimir Solovyova, established by John Paul II (1998) and others. In Europe, it has long been Persona Grata. But even Alexander Solzhenitsyn Award (2003) did not add her popularity in Russia. Dontsov we know everything; Sedakov is only those who know a lot in literature. Olga Sedakova, Philologist and Translator, Poet and Esseist, is associated with the names of Yuri Lotman and Sergey Averintsev, Leonid Gubanova and Yuri Kublanovsky, Joseph Brodsky and Venedikta Erofeev. Her place between these vertices is not lost - it is difficult to access. Her poetry, permeated with the golden light of the Orthodox Icons, does not call idle passersby. It must be coming to her. Her essistics in the complexity of thought and ease of speech continues the best traditions of the Russian intelligentsia. It is not for discussion, but for thought. Therefore, Sedakova does not belong to any of the opposing camps, the rhesis of Russia. Not in demand? - Not recruited!

Sad, and maybe even the tragic fact of recent years I find the fact that the beginning of freedom did not turn to people with an encouraging person: reviving hope, confidence in each other, solidarity. ... Gorbachev's years opened avalanche of other self-expression: sullen, mumble, empty. The first word of the liberated art was the abyss of a variety of nasty. Mystical Pornography of the Wickyuk Theater, Sotozart, Commercial Paroticness of Viktor Yerofeyev ... I do not remember anyone to make freedom.

Olga Alexandrovna Sedakova was born in Moscow on December 26, 1949. He graduated from the Faculty of Philology of Moscow State University, defended her thesis at the Institute of Slavov Studies by the USSR Academy of Sciences. Widely known in academic circles as a deep scientist. Her work "Church of the Russian Paronims. Materials to the dictionary "(M., 2005) deep and original on the intent and unique on topics. In his youth, Sedakova was closely connected with the famous poetic association could, later recognized his proximity to the St. Petersburg poetic school, stylistic relationship with the poetics of Elena Schwartz and Viktor Krivulin. The circle of its interests is delineated in the essistic, which is subject to reflection in a wide range from scientific hypothesis to personal memories. (It is gratifying a string that binding Olga Alexandrovna with the literary Oryol Territory. In the room dated July 20, 2005, the Oryol Vestnik offers the reader a fragment of the essay "two nanny" - the Lyrical Memorial of the Livensky Peastery Marus.) In addition to everything in 2003, the honorary degree of the doctor was assigned to her. Theology. In speech at the Sedakov solemn ceremony gave its definition of poetry: this moment of the rightness, a wonderful oblivion about the possibility of mistakes and misses, about his sick imperfection of a person and calls clean happiness. The gift of poetry as poetry, regardless of its concrete content, is the gift of this happiness. This gift the poet justifies his era. The era that does not want to know him.

No poets? - No readers! And there are poets. They are a bit. They should be a bit. Moreover, according to Sedakova, the phenomena of one large poet is quite enough for poetry to continue in all fame. To the worst glory of our timeless will be quite a single sediac.

Vladimir Yermakov

Did you read verses or prose, or scientific works, or theological books of Olga Sedakova? I think that many are unlikely to answer the affirmative.
Meanwhile, Olga Sedakov is published since 1989, and only in Russian she came about 40 books. And translationals. And the first compilation was published in Paris in 1986.
Poems Sedakova writes from childhood. She is the winner of various premiums. So why do people know little about her?
Maybe Sedakova rarely happens in public? About her do not write the media?
Try to fill her name and surname in the search engine, and you will find many links on its interviews, performances.
And people confuse a poet with actress Anna Sedakova.
Why so?

Maybe people fought poetry? I do not think, because I loved the centuries, they loved, and now suddenly blurted out. I still remember how girls massively rewrite the poems of the poems of Akhmatova and Tsvetaeva, memorized them by heart. At the same time, didn't they write a lot about Akhmatova or Tsvetaeva in the 70s-80s in the newspapers?

Probably, the fact is that Akhmatova and Tsvetaeva wrote poems about their feelings - about love, about love, about jealousy, about suffering, and poems sedakov ...
It's hard to say about what, but they are not about love.

business card
Unfortunate
who talks with the guest and thinks about tomorrow;
unfortunate
who does the case and thinks he does him,
and not the air and the beam they water
as a brush, butterfly, bee;
who takes the chord and thinks
what will be the second, -
unfortunately fearful and stingy.
And more miserable,
who does not forgive:
he, insane, does not know
as a stork manual from bushes stands,
like a bowl of golden
take off by itself
in a cute sky over cute land.

On the verses of Sedakova speak only in the most enthusiastic tone and most often compared with Dante.
Well, what to say? I have long noticed that adequacy in humans is less and less.

But God with them, with verses - let's say, they are not consonant with me, but they write about the sedakovka and as about the succession of Likhachev and Averintsev, i.e. She is a new conscience of the nation.
Interesting, we are people - in no way we can not live without the conscience of the nation. I think this time we did not lose: Sedakova - 68th year: it is enough for a long time.

In this quality, Sedakova today reflects on the attitude towards evil in the Russian tradition.
Immediately tell you, comrades - the tradition of attitude towards evil we have the most premorse. We, it turns out, do not distinguish good and evil.
For example, Stalin is evil, and Europe is good. Understood? Who doubts - that evil himself.

« I just wanted to show the deep origins of tolerant and even friendly attitude towards evil. Here the tradition is much longer, although the upbringing in the spirit of "Soviet moral dialectics" played a role. I would not even say that this indemnity is a fear of calling evil evil, abstaining from such judgment.
- What is the cause of such fear?

- The overall picture of the universe, in which it is assumed that good powerless and only evil has some kind of force. If good wants to do something, then without the help of evil will not cost. Because good in the Russian tradition is presented in the image, let's say, Prince Myshkin, is a big difference with the European, Western tradition, where, starting with Dante, we see a completely different picture - good strongly.

- This is the Russian cultural tradition - not to believe in the power of good?

- Of course not. Just other cultures I have not had the opportunity to do so closely. It can be submitted in other places, closer to the east in opposition to the West - East, or to the south in opposition North - South. That is, to those areas where the ethics is a bit different.
- That is, it remained, for the most part, the shadow side, the amendments to evil, the disbelief, that the good has power?

- To cope with the universe, which is inherently evil and unfriendly.

- This explains what the current Russian consciousness so fiercely protects Stalin and Ivan the Terrible, two, apparently, the very bloody Russian leaders?

- Sure. For the first time I published the option of work on evil in the Russian tradition, about friendship with evil, almost 10 years ago. I wrote at the end of the worship before the villains, before the villain, without any "but". Not as it was said before: Stalin killed many, but it did something and that - and about the worship just for what he was now saying was "cool," he was fierce and merciless. Then I objected to me: Well, what do you turn? And now we see that the cult of cruelty arises as such, the cult of villains, who are chosen from history and worship them. Of course, not at the official level, but we are talking about the canonization of Malyuts Skuratov, Beria, all who became famous for the evils.

- But you can always find something positive. About Beria say that he headed the nuclear program and without it Soviet Union There would be no bombs in confrontation with the United States. Yes, they say, he is cruel, and well, because another may not have achieved anything.

- When they say that only an evil, mercilessly can be achieved with something, is a fairly moderate position. But now they do not discuss that, in fact, a good Maluta Skuratov. It is said that he was just a merciless villain, and well - he helps one evil to cope with another evil, because the whole world is evil and it is necessary to go to him in this way. Romantization of malice.

- Now you say a terrible thing: the cult of evil begins as such, the man begins to think that evil is good.

- I described the relationship with evil when it is justified, they say that there is something good or it was for something necessary. But apogee - when evil is glorified as evil, as the correct behavior in the world. This is a very recent thing, there was still no such thing.

- This is the temporary deviation or the logical development of the centuries-old tradition, which you said about, that is, a sustainable phenomenon that will only be strengthened?

- I hope that he has no future. But how much it can last - it is difficult to predict. Before the glorification of the villain as a villain, the case has never come before. It appeared literally in recent years. Because here, I think, not only cultural and geographical opposition, as the West - East, South - North, but also the environment. There is an underground world, criminal circles, lumpennish in the worst sense, and they have such ideas about the universe: do not deceive, you will not kill - you will not get anything. The outside of the society, which is in every society, are published, but they have no right to publicly approve their faith.

- I somehow talked with a sociologist Svetlana Stevenson, who wrote the book "Gang of Russia. From the streets to the corridors of power" - about how the gangster ethics of the 90s is institutionalized and spread to the whole society. You talk about something like that.

- The fact that ethics of Spand, the bottom, the rogues of society becomes almost official. Official circles still do not behave this way, but give the floor to all these motors and surgeons - who now must be proud of the people. That is, there are also social changes, not only the property of culture.

- You said that Stalin's case did not die, it continues. Do you have an idea who and how can it end?

- I think the recognition of the majority will not be long. In Germany, the majority did not want to recognize what happened during the Nazis. There must be some kind of decision taken to a legitimate way: something that did not take place in 1991 in a rather ridiculous form of a court on the Communist Party, "said nothing, did nothing. Some decision - reasonable, described in detail, evidence that it happened not only at Stalin, but since the revolutionary coup in 1917. Who should cook it, think about what happened? Of course, intelligentsia and intellectuals. "

Of course, intellectuals. And you, cattle, in the stall! What right to say all sorts of surgeons with motorolas? Speaking has the right only sedakov.

« the culture of the West has some moralism. Very clear delimitation of good and evil, which caused the resistance of Russian thinkers. They always criticized the legal entity, legalism and rationalism. This typical triad, according to Russian thinkers, characterizes the West. Then the individualism will be added to it.

And we must feel. Everything is wrong with us. We must feel sensitive, flexible, etc. How it is so easy to solve - here is good, it's bad here. Not only Russians, but also western thinkers who were interested in this difference were noticed. That here some kind of indigenous difference occurs between attitude towards evil, between moralism. One of my favorite authors of the 20th century - Dietrich Bonhöffer - Theologian and Martyr, killed for the resistance of Nazism in Germany, wrote in the diary: "Russians are so beaten by Hitler, probably because they have never had our morality."

Russians were so immoral that Hitler broke! Something I somehow confused: good because the evil wins, how did Sedakov proven? If Hitler is evil, then, the Russians, it means that good - so why are we amoral again?

« It is important that Western thinkers, theologians very often engage in self-criticism in this respect. There is also a great difference between the Russian tradition and Western. Russian is not self-critical. And any criticism is ready to perceive as an open hostility. The West does not wait for anyone to call him outside the legal and rationalist. They will call themselves».
Yes, self-criticism: "We hurt us! Not that these Russians. "
« ... There is such a party in Russian terms to evil, which can be called Eastern compared to Western. And you can call southern compared to the North. We have the usual opposition - "West - East", whereas all over the world are discussed in the same sense "North-South". Oddly enough, the Russian northern, in the geographical sense, civilization is suitable for the "south". Because this flexibility, latitude, uncertainty - South. North - he is hard, he loves the rules».

Even the fact that Russia is in the north, and then Sedakova is ready to refute. Russia is Africa. Those with us on one latitude are in the north, and we are still in the south, because the immoral and good of evil are not distinguished.

Here we have the conscience of the nation today.

As the Americans love to speak in the cinema, if I paid for a dollar for every negative statement about the Russian peoples, which I have to read and hear from 1987 about the year, I would have become a millionaire for a long time.
But I grew on another attitude to the people, like Sedakov. We were taught that people are always right. And I believe it so far.
Therefore, it is not taught by people by heart the poems of Sedakova - nothing but the arrogance of the words disguised about God, they do not find it. And why a person who considers himself much better than his people, any public? She has a group of Podkhalimov's admirers - she is enough for her.
So they are with the people and will not meet the benefits of both.

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